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The Back Scenes of Engagement that You Don’t Know About!

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The Back Scenes of Engagement

Two days ago BlogEngage deleted a few of its power member accounts, these accounts has been removed from the community and their submissions has been totally erased from the popular social bookmarking site. David Leonhardt describe it as one of the social media fails of 2011, and Miranda Marquit shared her views and talked about why she is having hard times with social media.

The goal of this post is to spot the light on this situation as FamousBloggers.net has been and will remain a place to share our voices through the blogosphere, so nothing really personal against any one who is involved, but I see that this matter worth the discussion, and it won’t pass quietly!

I also share this as a BlogEngage member, in fact I turned to be a business membership holder, this means all my articles goes directly to BE via the RSS once it gets published on the blog, no red traffic lights!

However, being a premium account holder doesn’t mean you have a super power, or you won’t be banned, anyone can be banned if they vote for their friends!  So, please behave and say NO to your friends.

Why BlogEngage delete members’s accounts

What I understand from Brain’s post on how to engage on BlogEngage is that he wants to point members to the right way to engage in the community! That’s super cool, but I see some confusion in the post, mainly about the “right way to engage at BlogEngage” and “relationships”.

The post is clearly pointing to members who vote up for their friend’s submission and not engaging enough with the community!

I agree that this is not good practice, and for the same reason a popular site like Sphinn.com has removed the whole voting system and give the power only to its editorial team to decide which submission should pop on the front page.

Also, this remind me with a very interesting post by Rohn Jay Miller, in that post he asked people to delete their profile from Klout forever! He thinks that Klout dos’t worth it, and probably he is right, I mean who the hell you are to measure social influence and put together some standards. Well, in short… It’s all about Money!

So here are some thoughts, and to be honest, I would suggest removing the voting system from BlogEngage, it just doesn’t work!

There is no right way to engage!

There is no right way to engage, there is only a “successful way to engage“, and “successful way” doesn’t mean “right way”

Every person has her/his own ways to engage, so it’s not cool to force them towards the BlogEngage point of view while still having holes in the system!

Yes, BlogEngage is a great community, but it has a few holes like any other system, these holes got even wider after the auto submission premium memberships has been launched.

I just think that everyone should take it easy when adding  a premium service to a free membership site that is already has members. It’s not about the plan on how to do it, but it’s about how to actually keep it up!

I must point to a big difference between the “right way to engage at BlogEngage” and the “right way to engage”!

The right way to engage at BlogEngage could be the way Brian explained in his post.

But, the right way to engage “in general” in my opinion is away far away from that, it’s not about social bookmarking, it’s not a bout reading an article as well as sharing that article!

In the Back Scenes of Engagement!

We all do s**t, a little bit here and there to get things going, so I am not the perfect member of any community, really!

In fact I don’t care that much whither a friend/follower share my articles or not, I mean this is not enough reason to have a great relationship together or call it engagement, really! Not because she/he is tweeting my stuff to their 129372 followers!

Relationship is way more complicated than sharing stuff, it’s actually about “doing stuff”, even though you member perfect model for engaging at BlogEngage, this could be far away from the ideal model!

I know David for quite good time, thanks to social bookmarking sites like BlogEngage to introduce us to each other, our engagement and relationship is not about a Vote, Facebook like or a Tweet, we do stuff together! Good stuff! Yes, we do what is more than social media sharing! I won’t forget the support David is giving to the FamousBloggers.net blog.

I want this to be clear, no body knows what really happens in the back scenes of engagement! And, many people just don’t know how to engage for real!

Don’t apply your rule to the past!

Setting new rules is fine, but applying the new rules to the past is NOT OK!

I’ve done tons of changes to the FamousBloggers.net guest blogging module and rules, which I think helped in pushing the site up, and by feedback of the community, FB is a quick successful guest blogging site. However, I have big holes in the system, it’s really hard to make it perfect. Many contributes just don’t follow the rules, I send several emails to them, I even join them on chat sometimes before cutting them off!

One of the rules is to remove the author credits from the Bio and the content if they disable or changed their profile picture, I require them to use a real personal picture. This is not for me, but this is for the blog readers, I want everyone to be real, I want everyone to blog without a stupid mask, and I don’t welcome link builders who pretend to be bloggers!

I still remember my poor social bookmarking site that I’ve created couple of years ago, the Making Money Online Social Network, many people used to call the MMO network, this site was getting its first steps toward popularity.

I admit it, I failed! I couldn’t maintain the site for technical issues since it’s a Drupal based social bookmarking site that no one has contributed to the Drigg module I am using for a long time, 2007 to be specific. I thought many times to just sell it and forget about it, maybe someone else will make a good use of it or turn it to a profitable business, but I was always concerned about the old submissions that was made by its members.

I just couldn’t make a decision to delete the whole thing and break all people’s links. So I preferred to just keep it this way for now, till something new comes up!

However, even if I decided to delete it and start over, I will make sure to inform all members, that’s what I think is right before doing a big move. I remember when Alex planned to sell Kolakube.com without informing anyone of its members, it was a sort of tragedy, but fortunately things ended well, and the site has not been sold.

At least you have to send a few several warnings before you touch an account!

Final Thoughts

When a website or a community decides to go pro and charge people for submissions, or have a type of premium membership, they need to be more careful, and think twice before making decisions.

Probably BlogEngage should take its voting system away, it doesn’t play well with the paid memberships!

Let all the “paid” automatic submission pop right away on the front page, please! (why do we have to wait for votes?)

This is the second month since I started my BlogEngage business membership, I hardly see my submission on the front page (probably because I don’t ask for votes), I update this blog with more than one post on daily bases, and the most funny thing is that I don’t blog here alone, there are plenty of contributors who are members of BE writes here on FB, thy don’t even bother to vote or share their own posts!

This is a business, it’s not a game, it’s also not about building a community, people have business to do! They submit entries to social bookmarking sites for the seek of business!

So at least, send a warning before making big decisions that could hurt someone’s business.

Actually, don’t take a decision by yourself! It should be taken by the name of the community!

I like BlogEngage, and I like to be there, but if I can not make a difference in the community, then I don’t want to be there, I don’t want to be there just for being there!

So, don’t just go away, tell me something!

About

I create websites with WordPress, and I develop Schema Plugins to help SEOs. I am a social network lover. I am also the night creature who works hard to keep this project up. Owner and founder of the Famous Blog.

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{ 20 Responses }

  1. Bishwajeet says:
    According to me, any marketing is a positive marketing. Blogengage might not get paid users for the time being but it will grow due to all this hue and cry over it in the blogs.
  2. pcd2k says:
    Firstly I'm not yet a blogger of business or running one I more so have a love of data and all of the things that I can manage within the internet. Secondly, I joined BlogEngage to share my stories and to read others. I'm not a big engager, and I usually share comment and or participate in whatever I like or love at any particular time, mostly I should say by being inspired by whatever I've read. (That is, if I don't get pulled in, then one flick and your gone.) Most importantly though and quite apart from the software engineers at Google, bots rule internet search. There is in essence a subliminal voting system going on continuously throughout the internet by the heirarchical bot system that people search or click or link to. The voting system within BlogEngage acts more like a surface provider, that is if we so desire we can view or monitor as you, like how one's stories are or not being hugged. Every system has its pitfalls, but I preferably would like to one day see a blog portals front page offering up stories in a blanket of categories, rather than a list. Then after hitting a category a second page offers up another blanket of screenshots just of a small section of each blog then clicking that one opens up in a third window, and that is the story you decide to read. That kind of system would offer a much quicker glance plus provides much more advertising space and possibly in some cases to sell or buy !
  3. emory says:
    Just re-reading here and want to say I appreciate your analysis, Hesham and great comments in this thread. To all my fellow bloggers who thought they were doing the right things but were banned, be encouraged. There are plenty of safe blogging communities out there to explore and engage with.
  4. Ileane says:
    Hesham, I am so glad that you wrote this post. You are certainly qualified to be an authority on this topic. First I would like to say that I regret that things did not work out for you with MMOSocialNetwork. The concept had (and still has) so much potential and it's really a shame to know that the technical side of things caused the downfall. Don't give up on the dream of having your own social voting site and you know that I will be there to support you all the way. Since everyone has already voiced all of the sides of this topic my comment here will be quite different. I've always done things a little different from everyone else and I'm sure that I am the only one who feels this way. First of all I NEVER had a problem with people asking for votes. They didn't have to be my friend and they didn't even have to promise that they will vote for my stuff either. I remember when there was a fuss over people asking for votes in the chat room. Well when I come to Blog Engage I really come to vote, so why would it be a problem for someone to get on the chat and ask me to vote. See what's different about me is this - I already read the posts before I login to blog engage. I only come there to make sure I vote for stuff I read already. Now my next stop it the UPCOMING posts. That's right, I TOTALLY bypass the front page because the front page has always been "rigged" even before David joined. And I don't mean that in a bad way, I'm just saying the front page stuff is not the "fresh" stuff. All of the fresh stuff is coming "hot off the press" so to speak in the Upcoming section. So who the heck cares what's on the front page anyway? Not me that's for sure. Next I will pick a user from the Top Users sections - Let me say before I go any further that in the past there has always been a different number of members in this section which drives me nuts (now back to my point). Then I don't do what most other people do, I don't look at their submissions - I look to see what they have VOTED for! I've been doing that for a long time and you know what this tells me? It tells me what type of blogger they are. Are they voting on all different types of post or are the voting for their friends or what. I don't pass judgement and say they are doing it WRONG or RIGHT. I just make a mental note and then I vote for the titles that look good (for the posts I haven't read already). If something really catches my eye, I will click on that users profile and then check to see what they have VOTED on! Now do you see why all this CRAP about the front page means absolutely nothing to me? And just for the record there is no way I am going to read every single post I vote for. Nobody can make me do that on any of the social networks. I don't care what kind of rules the post. I'll move to Canada if necessary (that was a Zoom.it joke for those of you who are still paying attention). One last thing before I go!!! I am probably one of the only bloggers who is NOT blogging for business. I don't try to get client, I don't give away free ebooks so that people will sign up for my list (but if someone is willing to set that up for me just get in touch) so I'm not in it for business. DON'T GET ME WRONG! I like to make money just like the next gal, but blogging is not my bread and butter - I do it because I LOVE it. I'm passionate about it (can't you tell). And a hate controversies like this because I feel like they are intruding on my play time. Ok that's all I got! Love you Hesham!
  5. Tom Shivers says:
    Hesham, I think you nailed it when you said, "I want this to be clear, no body knows what really happens in the back scenes of engagement! And, many people just don’t know how to engage for real!" I was introduced to BE by David and others who know how to engage for real and for a time it was my favorite social voting site because I was building relationships with others. Now it seems like I have to watch my back if I do anything on BE just to keep my account from being ditched. There are no "rules" for engagement in social media and that's one of the reasons social media has become what it is today. In my opinion, monitizing a community (or launching a business) is something that should be thought through carefully back at the beginning otherwise nobody wins. Twitter and others have done this quite well.
  6. Assaf says:
    Wow, so many words on something that is so clear. Yes, clear! Background: I was also banned from BlogEngage. I have no interest in having my account back, because I don't want to be a member of a community where my account is at risk for every step I take. I wasn't a paying member, I joined BE while it was free to join. I had total of about 15 submissions (top notch quality), each reached the front page. I voted for many members' submissions often. Recently, I was in the "Top Users" box. All the members that were banned were NOT paying members and their submissions managed to reach the front page because they put an effort in connecting with other members (that is the essence of social). It all boils to the combination of NOT paying and still getting front page benefit... all the rest is B.S.
  7. Mark Steward says:
    The truth is not transparent here – I cannot say that David tried to game the system; I cannot say that he didn’t! So what’s the definition of gaming the system and being an active user? Things need to be a bit more transparent. I mean, may be Brian should put out clear “guidelines” page at BE to make it easier for people to follow,
  8. Justin Germino says:
    As a long time member of Blog Engage and one who saw the benefit of the RSS Syndication, I noticed the problem with barrage of "published" articles from certain members and also see it from their point of view as well. I still think communication should be key, and nobody should be banned without giving a warning and explanation on what they need to do to improve the community experience. I am still a BE member and honestly I had to ask if my own account was in violation because I do use RSS Syndication, vote for my own articles and don't vote as often (I do vote on about 5-10 other articles per day) but don't do nearly as much discovery as I would like to. I try not to vote for the same people, but I do. I rarely ask for votes on my articles unless it's to win a contest. I told Brian that had BlogEngage been a much larger community like Digg, simply asking the 10-15 to vote for you to get to homepage couldn't manipulate articles going directly to homepage anymore. If the site were larger and had thousands of members with hundreds voting, then you couldn't request enough votes to guarantee homepage assurance. One of the good things about BlogEngage was getting to the homepage with 10/14 votes, whereas you are unlikely to ever get an article dugg to Digg homepage with less than 90+ votes at a minimum (it used to require hundreds).
  9. Raj says:
    The voting system has never worked anywhere. People never elect the right politicians using that system and as was perhaps observed in the above incident, people were using votes to gain false influence that never belonged to them. I feel that the voting systems should be taken away and a moderator (knowledgeable one at that) should decide which content is the best and deserves to hog the limelight.
  10. donna young says:
    Sometimes community guidelines can be so confusing and a bit frustrating but it would be helpful if Blog Engage would get the sides of the account owners first before hastily deleting accounts. Had a similar experience in answering questions for Wiki Answers where they would just ban everything (IP and any name connected to the original account) without due process when their community guidelines are not clear what kinds of posting are considered advertising. Blog Engage should realize that by doing this, there may come a time when users would stop using them.
  11. Sally Brown says:
    To tell the truth, I am a relatively new member of BE. I submit to other sites, but not as a paid member. I realized when I joined BE that I would not have the quality of content that more experienced members/bloggers did, but thought it would help my blog and myself be heard. It does take a lot of time to belong to a community. I have worked a lot of hours gaining new friends, voting on their posts, comment on their posts and chatting with members. I will read/vote other posts from people who aren't on my friends list and usually send a request to be friends. To me, it is only common sense for an owner to realize that most members will vote for those that are their friends along with trying to interact with new people each week. I was very perplexed over what happened at BE, and am re-evaluating whether this is the type of site I want to belong to. That being said, I will say (with my limited knowledge) I was disappointed that more time and communication was not more intense. Several of the people on the deleted list, were friends on the site, and will continue to be friends online. I will think long and hard prior to being a paid member of another site like BE. However, I have enjoyed being a member of BE, meeting some of the best bloggers on the net, reading and learning from them, and will continue to interact on BE for the time being. Thank you for this article that helps explain, without a strong bias, the situation which occurred. Sally
  12. Dave Lucas says:
    I love Famous Bloggers and I love BlogEngage... but I NEVER participate in any contest or competition which factors in items like "how many retweets you get" or "how many likes on facebook" or "shares on G+" - I'm a firm believer that QUALITY and CONTENT are far more valuable than convincing a bunch of sheeple to support your article so you can win a prize. I'd rather have a daily reader count of 5 than stoop to such a level. Hesham and Brian, you guys are both great thinkers and innovators! I challeneg the two of you to get together and come up with a fairer system of rewarding your blogger fans! Blog On!
  13. Jym says:
    Mmmm... All a bit sad I think. Crossed agendas - those of premium members within a free community are difficult to balance. I like that Blog Engage gives an opportunity to get coverage for my posts which I like to believe is on the merit of (1) Headline and Description Quality (2) My networking and time invested in voting and sharing others work (3) If people have time to read - the quality of my posts. So I prefer not to have those who have a bigger budget than me jumping up the front page (sorry Hesham!). That said, I understand completely the view form the business members who'd like a little more bang for their buck. Love the insight here though - there's not really a right way, only a 'successful way'. Every system or structure will attract those who will game it to reap the best results. Is that necessarily wrong? I don't think so... Like Francisco in the comment above, I see all sides in this, and each in it's way is right. Just goes to show how difficult it is to run a community and stick to your values... Good to read your take on this Hesham
  14. Mika Castro says:
    It’s not a technical issue for me, obviously, as programming a functionality to let users delete their own accounts is something most competent developers could do before breakfast. I think deleting an user account is both a complex process and a scalability nightmare. It’s primarily a technical issue and the reason why most services and social sites take days to properly delete an user account.
    • Hesham Zebida says:
      Hi Mika, Deleting members account from BlogEngage wasn't a technical issue!
  15. David Leonhardt says:
    Excellent analysis Hesham. It should be noted that the five people I know of whose accounts were deleted (there might be others, too, but I am aware of only five) engaged each in different ways, and cannot all be treated with the same brush. For my part (since Brian tweaked his post to point a finger directly at me), I am not shy to admit that I did ask for votes from friends from time to time and I see nothing wrong with that, especially since I found the massive number of RSS feed submissions quickly pushing my submissions off the upcoming page where people could see them. There are some RSS customers like you who engage, but many just don't. I wish I could offer Brian a solution for this, but I don't have one. What Brian left out of his blog post is that I did not just submit and ask for votes. I truly was one of the most active users of BlogEngage in many ways: I voted for all sorts of posts from all sorts of users, many of whom probably never did vote for my submissions. I submitted my blog content, client blogs I write for AND blog posts that I have NO vested interest in (how many BE members go to those lengths to build community?). I commented frequently on other people's posts, too. I met some great people on BlogEngage, relationships that have grown beyond that site. I recruited many of Brian's more active users, a couple of whom are paying RSS subscribers today. I would kill to have a few people on my social bookmarking site, Zoomit Canada, acting the way I did on BlogEngage.
  16. DiTesco says:
    Wow, I had to read all the post first before actually being able to comment here Hesham. Actually I am not quite sure yet what to say as I am a bit surprised how such things can happen without prior notice. AS you know, I am a member of BE but sadly, I just don't have the time to active in all the communities I am a member of. Once in a while I will go there and vote for some articles that I probably already and know that it is good. After reading David's post and Brian, I have to admit that I agree with "both" sides and perhaps there was a communication issue.. what I do agree though s that "rules" although should be respected should not be applied retroactively, at least for this case. I think that deleting an account outright and from an active community member is not right and deserves at least some sort of explanation, personally. True the post of Brian is clear as to what his intentions are for his site, but that is a "public" and IMO David should have deserved a bit more of a personal touch. Weird...
    • Jane says:
      Hesham, I came to know about this issue last week and it is a sad thing, certainly. I know Brian and David (most active user of BE, almost all the time) and its really hard to say what went between them - As Fransisco says, I guess there has been a strong misunderstanding. And I also do agree that it is business and not a game. Further as Fran says, I am too a member of many communities but I don't have the time to be active everywhere. I vote once in a while, I comment once in a while, that's all I can do. But if someone has the time and takes the effort to vote and interact with people that's pretty good! At the same time, we cannot say if its purely out of interest or if it is to game the system - this is the serious point I'd like to make here! The truth is not transparent here - I cannot say that David tried to game the system; I cannot say that he didn't! So what's the definition of gaming the system and being an active user? Things need to be a bit more transparent. I mean, may be Brian should put out clear "guidelines" page at BE to make it easier for people to follow; and certainly he should warn people and communicate his concerns before deleting an account. Plus I vote on Hesham's "premium members get to front page without waiting for votes" proposal :)
      • Hesham Zebida says:
        I agree, instead of publishing a blog posts from time to time to set new rules doesn't really help! A clear guidelines page could solve many issues! Yeah, if I found out that something is not useful or working on my site, I will think seriously about removing it!
      • David Leonhardt says:
        Well said. And my only honest answer is that my social engagement is driven both by business and by interest. I participate much less than I would like for my own interest, and much more than I need to for purely business. I suspect that there are others who feel this way, too.